Great points. Then ya have council people like Hollander contesting the proposed ordinance to not let people leave their **** on the public streets. Frigging pathetic, but what should happen is we bus some folks to his neighborhood and camp out and leave **** on his streets. Kudos to David James for pointing out the obvious that these idiots in the east end have no business saying what is acceptable in the downtown or west end area. Hollander would not be objecting to it if he had to deal with this