Take Home Car Monies to be returned soon!

It is about damn time. I am pleased that Fischer is living up to his campaign promise of not taking everything to court and not trying to rip off every part of Metro Government. This bodes well for the next 4 years.

From the Fop meeting if u work off duty u will pay $50 a month... no charge if u dont work off duty.. The city is giving us the money we previously paid. It will be on two separate checks with NO DEDUCTIONS. If gas goes above $4 to $5 officers working off duty will pay $70 a month. If gas goes above $5 officers will pay $90 a month. This is not in the actual FOP contract, but a separate agreement that runs until 2-2013

What is fair and reasonable about giving you back $700 if they are going to take $1200 over the next two years? I think this is stupid. What are they going to do if we vote NO? If we vote NO we will be in the same boat. Let them keep what they stole, and I will save $1200. They will never take our cars. Let them try. Don't accept this crap.

I park my car on my off duty. I might as well let the engine run for 8 hours if I am paying for the gas.

All those cars parked at the line are at risk of being victimized, won't start after a long weekend and do no good providing additional coverage either. Let them take them home for a fee and at least they will be safeguarded and kept clean and it generates additional revenue for the city.....just to and from work would be enough...

Pay the fee. If you only drive to and from your part-time job drive your own car and not pay the fee. You have choices guys. If you want to drive your car out of the county and want to pay to do it send Fischer an e-mail and explain how much revenue the city could make. Make your case just like you do in court. If you don't want to pay the fee THEN QUIT WORKING PART TIME and useing the car nobody forces you to do it and it's not your car. It is your choice. I've seen a difference since this mayor went in if you haven't then your BLIND and don't want to see. Remember 1 court pay will pay your fee so get over it and quit complaining. Sometimes I wonder us.

Even better, if you live out of the county, you have to leave it at the division just in case it is needed as a pool car.

To those of you who think it is a good idea to vote no, because you don't want to pay any more money and they can keep what they took, need to think about others. There are Officers and Sgts who supported you and paid the take home fee even though they lived out of county or state. They did this as a sign we were together on this issue. They paid even though they used it less than any other who took it home. It would be nice for those who stayed with you to get their money back.

What I see from this is there will be some officers who will go to their off duty jobs and not claim they are using the car on their forms. They will get caught and then they will start to cry about how they are being picked on by PSU. You can bet that the front office will start to look at who is using their cars for off duty and who is actually paying for them. This is a sure way not only to get yourself taken out of the program but eventually get cars taken away for good. Some will try and get away with it just as they do by taking the cars out of county and will get caught. It only takes one time to get removed from the program.

I see there are still those who would ****** and complain no matter what happens. If you don't want to pay the money for using it off duty then DON'T. No one is forcing you to use it. I know now you are going to cry that I need it for my off duty jobs so I can pay my bills. If that is the case you need to start living on what you make at the department and use off duty as your bonus. It appears that you cannot be happy that they are going to give everyone back the money that was taken from them because you don't want to play ball and pay to use the car to make extra money. Louisville could go like other citys have and do away with the take home care program. What would that do for your off duty? Too many newer officers on the department feel like this is a right not a privledge or perk. Nothing has to stay the same and if we do not vote yes to this it won't. Someone else brought up the fact that the main part of the rulling was metro goverment needed to negotiate in good faith with the FOP. They have done this. If we don't take the deal we will loose and they can start to charge us more money. When we go to court will will look like fools and loose everything. If that is what you want, vote no. For those of us who see the bigger picture we will vote yes. If you think I am being foolish on my reasoning look around the rest of the United States to see what is going on and the consessions that are being made by other goverment workers to keep their jobs and some benifits. The reality is I only have 4 more years left, live out of county and don't use my car for off duty that much as my jobs really don't need the car there. I just want to get the money I paid into this when we voted to stay strong and support everyone who this affected. You need to do what you feel is right in your mind, but be careful not to do it out of spite.

Pretty fair deal they just need to adjust the language on how we determine a $3, $4, or $5 month since the price fluctuates. I'm guessing they'll go by the price of gas on the 1st day of each month? For those complaining the JCSO is responsible for 1 fill up a month out of their own pocket if they don't work offduty and 2 fillups if they do. So some of those guys pay $100 month. If you have a good tax guy you'll get your $600 a year back.

Geeeeeeezzzzz, Quit Whining over anything. Be glad we have a Mayor that will work with us. The fire dept does not get to take the fire trucks home with them, EMS dont get to take an ambulance home with them and drive around while not working. Im just thankful to get the money back, in my household it is much needed, and i'm thankful to the FOP and our new Mayor. Good job on both parts. Mayor Fischer has definately kept his promise to run a good, honest government.

Count on paying $70, it will be $4 by summer.

When do we vote.

Wait till Abramson gets into the Governors office with Beshear. Next thing you know they will want to siphon part of your pension. Are you gonna roll over and take some more up the arse? There are plenty of people and corporations holding the majority of the cash flow in America. Why hit the small people in their pocket so the rich can get richer?

Must be nice to get help with the budget of the state by taking it from the workers. When I need help paying my bills nobody comes to my rescue.

Some of you are really showing your a$$ here. You'll clearly never be satisfied and can't even be grateful for the effort being made that is 200% better than anything our previous Mayor ever did regarding this issue. I am truly stunned. You can't pay for ONE tank of gas a month? Get over yourself. The average citizen is spending 200+ a month to commute to their job, and they also have to cover any and all maintenance on their cars, not to mention parking if they work downtown. Be grateful, for ONCE. You are your own worst enemy and you wonder why people in this city think the cops are nothing but whiney spoiled brats with inflated egos and entitlement issues. YOU are the problem.

Once we start giving in they will find new ways to keep taking MORE. It will NEVER stop. In two years it will be two tanks of gas. Then insurance will have to go to $250 a month or they will threaten to take the cars away. These "honorable" people running this county are shady. If you don't think there is a backdoor that will be opened on this you are insane. Every time they open their mouths it is a deliberate and thought out cunning move in a chess game. We are always in checkmate because we keep giving in.

Plain and simple: The budget should not be balanced on the backs of the workers. Cut non-essential services.

We need more deputy assistant extra chiefs! many more! that will solve everything. and if our chief had more shiny stars, instead of just one - things would get even better. yay. SUPERSTAR !

Anybody ever thought that maybe we should let them keep the cars and we will take a raise? That money will go towards our pension. The cars are only good for as long as you are working for LMPD. What do they estimate the value of taking a car home? $7,000 - $10,000. I would rather have that in my pension.

I have a couple of questions about this deal. In full disclosure I think it is the best we can get for now. On the price of gas, what is going to be the "price". Is it going to be the price at the pump or the discounted rate the city actually pays. Ask a Thornton's manager and they will tell you when the bill is sent to corporate it is adjusted downwards. The city used to have prices locked in by contract and did not pay full price. Next question is why the one size fits all approach. There is a difference between someone who drives to an off duty job and parks it verses one that sits in it with it running or patrolling a small city (I have done all three). If it is the former then the cost should be lower, the latter higher and a lot of jobs require the car. Next question is why isn't the extra taxes paid for off duty that goes into the sinking fund mentioned. That is money going to the city in the form of extra taxes from off duty. These are things that will not count for this agreement but should be looked into for when this one expires and do not take these as arguments to vote no. Do what we can now and educate ourselves for the future so that when the time comes and you are talking to some one about the cars we will have facts to back up our reasons. Done in a calm professional manner, with facts, will impact the average person favorably instead of sounding like we are crying as a group.

good post

This post needs to be closed. Monday you will know the verdict on the cars. Every post is rhetoric of the previous post. Like kicking a dead horse. You have your AMERICAN opportunity to voice your say at the polls Monday. The public looks at this site and what do they see a bunch of whiny A2s officers who would complain if given a 20 percent raise paid ins and cars. We still would find something to bit@h about. Vote your conscience and go on. This mayor is a business man not an idiot like Jerry. Do you honestly think good old Jer would have made a offer Hel& no, he would have kept your money and fought it in court for the next 10 years. Name one bad thing Fischer has done since taking office I don't see one. The money in in the bank in the cities name do you want it back or let them keep it. The choice is yours.

Next Tuesday when this comes to a vote we need to all vote yes and take this deal. Our FOP president has done a great job in fighting to resolve this issue with the city. He is also leading the way for our next contract to be better then what we have now. What some of the officers dont understand is that in court we did not win the right to have free take home cars, or win all this money back. We simply won the right to have the city negotiate with us on these matters, nothing more. Please be smart next Tuesday and vote yes on this issue. The new terms are more then fair. For officers who dont work off duty to be able to continue to take their car home for free is great. For those who do work off duty the fee is fair as well, because who knows what is going to really happen with gas prices in the next few years? Prices could be well over $4.00 or $5.00 a gallon at any point in the future depending on what happens over seas. Bottom line is if this issue is voted down and it continues to be tied up in litigation we are going to run the risk of not getting any money back at all, and dragging this thing out further for months or even years in court.

The city DOES benefit from Officers working off duty already. Where an Officer is working off duty that is one less place on duty officers need to patrol and or respond to. So not only are we benefiting the city but now we will have to pay for the privilege of doing so. Yeah great deal, I'm voting NO absolutely not, NO NO NO NO!

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Judge Perry ruled that we should negotiate the fee, the city appealed and then the state Labor Cabinet ruled that is was UNFAIR and they can't do it AT ALL. They only thing the Labor Cabinet articulated was they couldn't order the money be returned by the city. The return or not of the money is what was to be negotiated. If we vote no, it is still UNFAIR according to the state. The city stopped because it was ruled unfair, not because they wanted to stop and be nice. It will only be fair if we vote it fair, and believe me, once we do that you'll see how "fair" they play. Diggin our own grave.

Louisville appeals take-home car ruling

Dan Klepal - The Courier~Journal

Published on: Tuesday, August 4, 2009

Total comments: 54

View comments

Louisville metro government filed an appeal Monday in Jefferson Circuit Court, challenging the Kentucky Labor Cabinet's ruling that the city cannot charge a fee to police officers who take their cruisers home.

The cabinet ruled July 7 that the city would have to negotiate through a police union contract any fees associated with officers taking cars home. That ruling said the city must "immediately" stop charging the fees — $100 per month, or $160 per month if the car is used as transport to a second job — and allow back in any officers who opted out of the program to avoid the fees.

Bill O'Brien, chief assistant Jefferson County attorney, said Mayor Jerry Abramson "made the determination that it would be economically prudent to ask the court for a review." O'Brien also said the cabinet's ruling "infringed on executive discretion."

Under the program, officers are free to use the take-home vehicles for personal or family business, and do not have to pay for gas, maintenance or insurance. Abramson instituted the fees — initially smaller — in March 2008 as the city was facing a $13million budget shortfall. He increased the fees to their current level last fiscal year, when the city faced a $20million shortfall.

Also Monday, the Fraternal Order of Police, River City Lodge 614, sought a ruling on whether the city has to repay the $890,000 already collected from the take-home car program. The cabinet's ruling said the repayment should be negotiated with the union.

"It's our belief that the repayment should have been part of the Labor Cabinet decision," said FOP President John McGuire. "If the city was taking it out (improperly), then the money should be returned to the officers."

City officials said $1.4million would be collected from the program this fiscal year, if it were allowed to continue.

Labor Secretary J.R. Gray made the cabinet's ruling after the FOP filed an unfair labor practices complaint when the fees were imposed. Gray's ruling upheld a May 2009 recommendation of a Labor Cabinet hearing officer.

The fees have not been collected since Gray's ruling.

Unless I'm missing something this was copied from a post on our website: I see two keys points. It was ruled UNFAIR and STOP IMMEDIATELY. Repayment of what was taken to be negotiated. It does not say the fee is to be negotiated. The fee must stop.

The cabinet ruled July 7 that the city would have to negotiate through a police union contract any fees associated with officers taking cars home. That ruling said the city must "immediately" stop charging the fees — $100 per month, or $160 per month if the car is used as transport to a second job — and allow back in any officers who opted out of the program to avoid the fees.

Also Monday, the Fraternal Order of Police, River City Lodge 614, sought a ruling on whether the city has to repay the $890,000 already collected from the take-home car program. The cabinet's ruling said the repayment should be negotiated with the union.

Unless I'm missing something this was copied from a post on our website: I see two keys points. It was ruled UNFAIR and STOP IMMEDIATELY. Repayment of what was taken to be negotiated. It does not say the fee is to be negotiated. The fee must stop.

The cabinet ruled July 7 that the city would have to negotiate through a police union contract any fees associated with officers taking cars home. That ruling said the city must "immediately" stop charging the fees — $100 per month, or $160 per month if the car is used as transport to a second job — and allow back in any officers who opted out of the program to avoid the fees.

Also Monday, the Fraternal Order of Police, River City Lodge 614, sought a ruling on whether the city has to repay the $890,000 already collected from the take-home car program. The cabinet's ruling said the repayment should be negotiated with the union.

Maybe your missing how this works, yes the circuit judge said stop charging the fees but what happens if they charge again and appeal it to the Court of Appeals and then to the Ky Supreme Ct. Yes guys it could take 10 to 15 years just like it did with the firemen to get any money back, but they could continue to take until appeals are exhausted and this city is a master at appealing verdicts. So vote no and we'll see what happens next.

The only ones whinning are the 20 thousand year part time workers. Pis# on the hand that feeds you and you might find the city don't allow the cars to be used for part-time work period. Yeah they belong to them not YOU.

The firemen won and knew they would win. Same for us. Let them try it, and it will cost them 6 times more than they take when we win. I'll take a check for $60,000 in 15 years.

Is the Helicopter considered a take home vehicle?

95% of the 325,000 members of the FOP would give their left nut for this agreement. Vote yes....RCFOP STAFF did an excellent job with this....THANK YOU DAVE AND THOSE WHO HELPED!!!!!!!!

Right now we pay zero. What is there to negotiate and vote on? Why are you guys not comfortable with zero? Zero sounds good to me. Labor Cabinet said they can't do anything unless we agree on it. Don't agree on it.

The city can easily say "no" to off-duty.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they should not charge us for thier benefit, being we have to work if we are in the car.

But off-duty work is for the officers benefit. What would keep the city from saying ,,,, No city vehicles used for personal profit. The cars are goverment property. People have gone to jail for using goverment assets for personal use.

Don't confuse my terminology of personal use with while not working, (off-duty) or driving it home. I mean earning "money" that you will use for bills, tires on your jeep, boob-job for your girlfriend , or what ever.

Thoughts?

The county does not pay the retail AAA price, so why is the fee based on that?

Also, why are people allowed to vote that it does not effect? If you do not work off duty then you are not a party to the class settlement fee. People that don't work off duty will skew the results against those that do because they obviously don't care either way. Has the Mayors office ever said the fee WILL start again if this is voted down. Has anyone said the cars WILL be taken away?

Why don't the people that want to vote YES, that DON'T work off duty, agree to pay $25 a month as well if they are so concerned about the budget and want to be fair to all involved?

One more question. If 1,000 officers work off duty (and that is a great big stretch) at $50/month, I come up with a total of $600,000. How is that going to put a dent in the budget when they spend $50,000 for bridge studies (at least 3 of them at that price) and $50,000 to Bruce Miller searching for NBA teams? That's not even counting all the other nonsense we know about. Be reasonable. They are rich, not us. Come on, they don't need our money. You are giving in too easy.

On a different note;

I overheard something odd the other day, supposedly somebody from the "Guardian Angels" called and wanted to discuss about establishing a "Chapter" here, in the West End. I read about them online, evidently they are "helping out" in Camden, with CPD's & the FOP's blessing. WTF?! Aren't they just some kind of beret wearing vigilante gang? From their website, they have "Chapters" worldwide. Anybody heard anything about this? Or know anything about them?

You are ALL wrong ! Don't vote yes. Don't vote no. Vote: MAYBE.

discuss, not berate each other. Too much bellyaching going on.

Hang together or surely hang seperately.

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACKS !!!

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yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes,

yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes,

You can't vacillate on this one people. A lot of people paid a lot of money in order for us to get to this point. It was like putting down a security deposit. We fought an excellent battle that was started by John McGuire and finished with Dave Mutchler. We have gotten to the table and are now able to have a say in the matter and it is a really good deal. Time to get our money back and move forward. In two years we will revisit the deal and work to keep the status quo or even sweeten the deal. That is what negotiation is all about. I voted Yes. Please do the same.

I was wondering how many months we were charged. I was looking at my paycheck stubs and it only looks like they took the money for 5 or 6 months. I thought it was longer than that. Maybe I am reading it wrong.

What next? Give up your freedom just because the government says so?

The YES vote won by 88% of the vote... 501 yes to 45 no....